Legislature(1999 - 2000)

03/03/1999 01:10 PM House JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CSSB 3(RLS) - CRIMES OF MURDER & CHILD MURDERS                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the next order of business is, CSSB 3(RLS),                                                             
"An Act relating to the crimes of murder, solicitation to commit                                                                
murder in the first degree, conspiracy to commit murder in the                                                                  
first degree, manslaughter, and criminally negligent homicide;                                                                  
relating to homicides of children; relating to registration as a                                                                
sex offender or child kidnapper; relating to the crime of                                                                       
interference with custody of a child or incompetent person; and                                                                 
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT called on Juli Lucky, staff to Senator Rick Halford,                                                              
sponsor of the bill.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1638                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JULI LUCKY, Researcher for Senator Rick Halford, Alaska State                                                                   
Legislature, stated the bill should be familiar to the committee                                                                
members.  It was heard last year as SB 218 and received seven due                                                               
passes.  It is basically the same bill.  Senator Halford would like                                                             
to send a clear message with this bill, that being "if you kill a                                                               
child you will go to jail for a long time."  She cited the                                                                      
Tellsworth case whereby a child was killed by a day care provider                                                               
and the mother of that child had to go through a long trial,                                                                    
pleading and sentencing.  She referred to a letter dated July 23,                                                               
1998 from the Department of Law to Senator Randy Phillips that                                                                  
says, "Indeed, were it not for the powerful and moving testimony                                                                
and letters of Linda Tellsworth and her family and friends, we                                                                  
might not have gotten the sentence that we did in the recent case                                                               
of the murder of Kyle Tellsworth."  The judge in this case stated                                                               
during sentencing that the criminal would probably get five and                                                                 
one-half years due to good time and suspended sentencing.  That was                                                             
the reason for sponsoring this type of legislation.  Under SB 3,                                                                
the criminal would have to spend substantially more time.  Ms.                                                                  
Lucky stated the bill does the following:                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     - adds a new form of first-degree murder when the death                                                                    
     of a child results from the commission or attempt of                                                                       
     kidnapping or of a sexual offense;                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     - expands the crime of felony murder to include sexual                                                                     
     abuse of a minor in the first and second degrees;                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     - adds a new form of second-degree murder when a death of                                                                  
     a child was caused with criminal negligence and the                                                                        
     offender has a previous conviction of certain crimes                                                                       
     against a child;                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - elevates criminally negligent homicide from a class C                                                                    
     to a class B felony;                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     - establishes a twenty year mandatory minimum sentence                                                                     
     for a person convicted of a murder of a child under the                                                                    
     age of sixteen;                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     - increases the mandatory minimum sentence from five to                                                                    
     seven years for manslaughter, when the victim is a child                                                                   
     under the age of sixteen;                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - establishes a new sentencing provision, which allows                                                                     
     for a term of un-suspended imprisonment that exceeds the                                                                   
     presumptive term, for certain felony offenses if the                                                                       
     victim is a child under the age of sixteen;                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - expands the crime of custodial interference in the                                                                       
     first degree to include the act of keeping a child or                                                                      
     incompetent person outside of the state; and                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - elevates solicitation of murder to an unclassified                                                                       
     felony.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1756                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI stated last year the bill enjoyed                                                                      
unanimous bipartisan support, and asked Ms. Lucky what the                                                                      
differences are between last year's bill and this year's bill.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. LUCKY replied there are a few inclusions in this year's bill.                                                               
The first inclusion ups solicitation of first-degree murder to an                                                               
unclassified felony bringing it in-line with crimes of conspiracy                                                               
to commit first-degree murder.  Another inclusion deals with sex                                                                
offender registration.  Senator Halford believes that an attempt to                                                             
commit a crime of sexual abuse or assault of a minor should be                                                                  
registered in the sex offender registry.  There are also some                                                                   
applicability sections that were added.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1812                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT asked Ms. Lucky which sections in the bill                                                                 
refer to sex offender registration.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. LUCKY replied Sections 11, 12, and 13 add offenses to the                                                                   
definitions that are now in the sex offender registry statute.  The                                                             
the definition of "aggravated sex offense", "sex offense" and                                                                   
"child kidnapping" are being added, respectively.  The bill adds                                                                
felony murder one and two to those definitions.  The applicability                                                              
is in Section 15.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT noted that the language "shall register" in on page                                                               
9, line 6.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1864                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated he does not see a fiscal note in the                                                             
bill packet.  He is curious about the elevation of criminally                                                                   
negligent homicide from a class C to a class B felony, and the                                                                  
increase in the mandatory minimum sentence from five to seven years                                                             
for manslaughter.  He asked Ms. Lucky whether the theory behind the                                                             
bill is to create a special crime for violence against a child.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. LUCKY replied the criminally negligent homicide provision would                                                             
affect the statute for everyone by upping it from a class C to a                                                                
class B felony.  The manslaughter provision was discussed last year                                                             
and ups the sentence for crimes committed against children under                                                                
the age of 16.  In other words, if a person is guilty of a crime of                                                             
manslaughter and those action harmed a child under the age of 16,                                                               
the sentence would be the higher of the two.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated he is troubled that the provision                                                                
for a criminally negligent homicide is across the board and not                                                                 
specifically towards a child.  He noted when the bill was passed                                                                
last year the state was in a different financial situation.  He is                                                              
concerned about the fiscal impact.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT noted that the committee has requested fiscal notes                                                               
from the Administration which have not been received yet.  The                                                                  
committee aide will provide a copy of the fiscal notes that were                                                                
transmitted with the bill.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1800                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR RICK HALFORD, Alaska State Legislature, noted that the                                                                  
Department of Law requested the change in manslaughter.  [THE REST                                                              
OF HIS TESTIMONY IS INAUDIBLE DUE TO PAPER SHUFFLING]                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2024                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT referred to Section 2(a)(3) and asked Ms.                                                                  
Lucky whether a person would be registered as a sex offender if                                                                 
that person commits a crime of kidnapping that is not of a sexual                                                               
nature.  The language reads, "...the person commits or attempts to                                                              
commit a sexual offense or kidnapping against a child under 16                                                                  
years of age...".                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. LUCKY replied the term "child kidnapping" is already defined in                                                             
statute, and Section 12 of the bill would add the crimes dealing                                                                
with kidnapping to that definition.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT stated that even though it is referred to as                                                               
a sex offender registry it really is a child kidnapper or sex                                                                   
offender registry.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. LUCKY replied correct and noted Section 12 (C) is the part that                                                             
already exists in statute.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2080                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated he was not aware that kidnapping is                                                              
a part of the sex offender registry.  He wondered if a parent                                                                   
kidnaps that parent's own child would that parent be a part of the                                                              
sex offender registry.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2096                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT stated he believes there is a distinction                                                                  
between child abduction and kidnapping.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG wondered whether that was litigated under                                                               
Megan's Law in the supreme court.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT opened the meeting up to public testimony.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 2132                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DAVID HUDSON, First Sergeant, Division of Alaska State Troopers,                                                                
Department of Public Safety, testified via teleconference from                                                                  
Anchorage.  He noted that Section 3 of the bill needs to be more                                                                
specific to consider a prior qualifying conviction to demonstrate                                                               
a clear nexus to the crime at hand.  For example, AS 11.41 includes                                                             
indecent exposure, and a defendant could argue that a prior                                                                     
conviction of indecent exposure has little to do with that                                                                      
defendant's current conduct and it should not be used to enhance                                                                
that defendant's criminal liability.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2193                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BLAIR McCUNE, Deputy Director, Public Defender Agency, Department                                                               
of Administration, testified via teleconference from Anchorage.                                                                 
The bill makes a significant change in homicide laws.  Homicide has                                                             
traditionally been divided into different degrees of seriousness                                                                
based on mental states.  The bill changes that and makes a                                                                      
classification based on the status of a victim as a child.                                                                      
Traditionally, first-degree murder was premeditated or intentional.                                                             
Second-degree murder was lesser but still a very serious type of                                                                
mental state.  Felony murder was when a person not participating in                                                             
the crime died in the commission of a serious felony.  Manslaughter                                                             
was reckless types of conduct, not intentional types of conduct.                                                                
Criminal negligent homicide was death caused by criminal                                                                        
negligence.  He reiterated the bill would change a well-ordered                                                                 
system.  In addition, there are others who deserve the type of                                                                  
protection under the bill such as the elderly, infirm or any other                                                              
vulnerable victim.  An "aggravator" is already defined in statute                                                               
and used to enhance sentencing when a victim is vulnerable.  In                                                                 
addition, Section 4 would raise all criminally negligent homicides                                                              
to a class B felony, such as a death from a traffic accident.  This                                                             
is quite a change in the law.  The division has submitted an                                                                    
indeterminate fiscal note because there would be more trials and                                                                
pleas, but the fiscal impact is indeterminable.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2324                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA referred to Section 2, lines 12-20, and                                                                 
wondered whether the direction is changing from a person's mental                                                               
state to criminal negligence.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. McCUNE replied it makes a fairly restrictive offense involving                                                              
torture or physical assault a first-degree murder by virtue of                                                                  
criminal negligence.  The conduct language directed toward the                                                                  
child was placed in the bill last year at the request of the                                                                    
Department of Law so that it is clear it would only involve cases                                                               
directed towards a child and not just that a child died in the                                                                  
course of another incident.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2424                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. T. CALDER testified via teleconference from Fairbanks.  He                                                                  
stated he is fascinated with the remarks by Mr. McCune.  The                                                                    
legislature doesn't have any business tampering with the criminal                                                               
code.  He knows that it can do it, but the history of crimes                                                                    
against children committed under the collar of the law is a much                                                                
more serious problem.  He has witnessed criminal activity under the                                                             
collar of the law against his own child and has not been able to                                                                
find a state official to address the problem in spite of laws that                                                              
already exist.  "We're just completely missing the boat here now to                                                             
shuffle around the criminal code and try to tighten things up and,                                                              
you know, up the ante on some of this."  There are already laws on                                                              
the books for this...                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-9, SIDE B                                                                                                               
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. T. CALDER continued.  The difficulties that citizens have when                                                              
their rights have been violated by governmental entities should be                                                              
the top legislative priority and really the only purpose for the                                                                
existence of the legislature.  He can appreciate the position of                                                                
the law enforcement officer who spoke earlier and understands the                                                               
frustration of making a criminal a defendant in a legal action that                                                             
is not fairly judged in the interest of the people.  That is a real                                                             
problem, but shuffling the words around in the bill and essentially                                                             
using children for this type of legal manipulation is dangerous.                                                                
He stated he would be happy to provide further information on the                                                               
criminal kidnap and torture of his own son by the Department of                                                                 
Health and Social Services, Department of Law, Department of                                                                    
Revenue and the court system.  In conclusion, he stated if someone                                                              
really wants to shuffle the criminal code around, the crime of                                                                  
genocide should be defined and lesser offenses.  That person would                                                              
be providing a valuable public service.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT noted there is something going on with the existing                                                               
system which is why the bill is being taken up.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0098                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ROBIN LOWN, Vice President, Alaska Peace Officers Association                                                                   
(APOA), testified in Juneau.  The APOA supports SB 3.  The                                                                      
association consists of 1,100 members from all law enforcement                                                                  
agencies in the state.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0128                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Mr. Lown whether the APOA has discussed any                                                                 
part of the bill in detail.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOWN replied the association has reviewed the bill in general.                                                              
It has not focused on any specific area.  However, in response to                                                               
today's testimony, he agrees with First Sergeant Hudson's opinion                                                               
and Mr. McCune's opinion relating to intent.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0174                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ANNE D. CARPENETI, Assistant Attorney General, Legal Services                                                                   
Section-Juneau, Criminal Division, Department of Law, testified in                                                              
Juneau.  The division supports SB 3.  It is substantially similar                                                               
to provisions in the Governor's Child Protection Bill (HB 375) that                                                             
passed last year.  The additions made to the bill since last year                                                               
are logical and make sense.  In reference to child kidnapping, the                                                              
legislature adopted a bill last year in response to federal                                                                     
requirements to add it to the sex offender registry.  It is now                                                                 
called the "Sex Offender and Child Kidnapping Registry".                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0215                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Ms. Carpeneti what the Act was                                                                    
called.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI replied it was called the Wetterling Act.  In                                                                     
addition, the reason for suggesting an increase in criminally                                                                   
negligent homicide was because in statute homicides are either                                                                  
murder in the first or second degree unclassified felonies.                                                                     
Manslaughter is a class A felony, and criminally negligent homicide                                                             
is a class C felony.  The gap is not appropriate, particularly when                                                             
car theft, failure to register as a child sex offender or kidnapper                                                             
in the first degree are class C felonies.  It seemed that                                                                       
criminally negligent homicide, causing the death of another person                                                              
through criminal negligence, is serious enough to be classified as                                                              
a class C felony.  It also makes more sense in charging and                                                                     
processing cases.  When considering charges of manslaughter, a                                                                  
class A felony, prosecutors think about resolving the case short of                                                             
a trial.  Therefore, they would be more likely to resolve a case                                                                
with a charge of criminally negligent homicide if it was a class B                                                              
felony.  It makes more sense.  It would up some cases to a B felony                                                             
and many cases would come down from an A to a B felony.  The effect                                                             
wouldn't be that great in terms of corrections and costs.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0319                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT stated in reference to kidnapping one's own                                                                
child, AS 11.41.300 provides a defense if that person is a relative                                                             
and the victim is a child and the primary intent is to assume                                                                   
custody.  It criminalities it at a different level.  It is still                                                                
criminal, but different than kidnapping.  He asked Ms. Carpeneti                                                                
whether that would come under the sex abuse or kidnapping registry.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI replied no.  It is treated as custodial interference                                                              
in the first degree - a class C felony.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0350                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT referred to Section 3(5), and stated the bill                                                              
would punish criminally negligent homicide with the death of a                                                                  
child and hook it to some of the fairly minor crimes in AS 11.41,                                                               
such as extortion and indecent exposure.  He asked Ms. Carpeneti                                                                
for a good example of criminally negligent homicide.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI replied reckless driving and causing a death.  AS                                                                 
11.41 are crimes against a person and she agrees it is a broad                                                                  
coverage and it is getting broader as offenses are added to it.                                                                 
She suggested breaking down some of the more serious offenses.  She                                                             
noted that assault in the fourth degree is the crime that most                                                                  
domestic violence cases are resolved under.  It can be very                                                                     
serious.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0443                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT referred to Section 2(2) and stated, according to his                                                             
understanding, it is a two-prong test.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI stated under the old common law intentional killings                                                              
were generally first-degree murders.  In 1988, the legislature                                                                  
passed AS 11.41.100(2), but it hasn't been used because it is                                                                   
difficult to prove a pattern or torture.  The purpose of the child                                                              
protection law is to elevate the safety of the children of the                                                                  
state and make it more serious to cause their death.  The changes                                                               
in the bill were suggested to make it easier to prove beyond a                                                                  
reasonable doubt that a person causing serious physical injury                                                                  
twice on the same child could be charged with first-degree murder.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0508                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT noted that he sees how a pattern or practice                                                               
could be difficult to prosecute, and asked Ms. Carpeneti whether                                                                
changing the language from extreme indifference to criminally                                                                   
negligent is substantial as well.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI replied it is two acts and the person must knowingly                                                              
engage in conduct directed towards a child.  It is a big change,                                                                
but the working group felt that it justified persecution for                                                                    
first-degree murder.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0550                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT stated the language in Section 2, starting on                                                              
line 12, "...knowingly engages in conduct...", doesn't incorporate                                                              
a standard.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI noted the language reads, "...directed toward a                                                                   
child...".                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT noted that the acts are separate, but the                                                                  
language doesn't read, "knowingly engages in criminally negligent                                                               
conduct."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI replied the way the bill is drafted now the result of                                                             
the action must be criminal negligence.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0598                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred to Section 5, and asked Ms.                                                                    
Carpeneti whether a person who knowingly takes a child out of the                                                               
state and that child is killed in a reckless manner, such as a car                                                              
accident, could that person be accused of second-degree murder in                                                               
the state of Alaska.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI replied no.  There has to be two separate instances.                                                              
A conviction generally includes a person being charged, found                                                                   
guilty, and sentenced.  Thus, unless that person has been convicted                                                             
of a violation in the first degree it would not count under                                                                     
second-degree murder.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0677                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT asked whether a person could be charged with                                                               
second-degree murder if that person has been convicted of custodial                                                             
interference then under lawful custody drives recklessly with that                                                              
child.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI replied yes.  She suggested going through AS 11.41                                                                
and deciding which person-crimes are serious enough to justify                                                                  
this.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0713                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT asked Ms. Carpeneti what is the punishment for                                                             
second-degree murder.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI replied a maximum of 99 years in jail.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0720                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG noted the bill ups second-degree murder                                                                 
from a minimum of 5 years to a minimum of 20 years.  It needs to be                                                             
looked at further.  It might be an unintended consequence.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0752                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT asked Ms. Carpeneti for more examples of                                                                   
criminally negligent conduct that might cause a death.  He wondered                                                             
whether drunk driving under certain conditions could be an example.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI replied generally drunk driving involving a death is                                                              
charged under manslaughter.  Sometimes manslaughter is reduced to                                                               
criminally negligent homicide if a link cannot be proved to                                                                     
manslaughter.  There are other situations, not just vehicular                                                                   
homicides, but she didn't feel comfortable giving further examples                                                              
before consulting with prosecutors.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0827                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated a drunken driving offense is                                                                     
normally charged with manslaughter yet criminally negligent                                                                     
homicide is below manslaughter.  Therefore, drunk driving is a                                                                  
higher level of criminally negligent homicide.  He asked Ms.                                                                    
Carpeneti whether a charge more than manslaughter would be included                                                             
in criminally negligent homicide.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI replied yes because it involves a degree of                                                                       
negligence or recklessness.  Recklessness is a higher degree...                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG interjected and asked Ms. Carpeneti whether                                                             
there is an administrative term "greater included."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI replied no.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated he is not sure whether that is the                                                               
case here in the bill.  He asked Ms. Carpeneti whether there is                                                                 
anything that the committee should be aware of relating to this.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI replied the term "greater included" is not used, but                                                              
its concept is used because there are those that are lesser                                                                     
included.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he doesn't want those instances that                                                               
are now typically charged as manslaughter to become de facto                                                                    
second-degree murder because of the bill.  He is not sure that is                                                               
the intent of the sponsor either.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI referred to Section 3(5) and noted the purpose is to                                                              
punish those more seriously who have caused the death of children                                                               
when in the past they have caused harm to children.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0979                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said, "I thought you said earlier that if                                                               
we find there's been a custodial interference with taking out of                                                                
state and a separate instance occurs (indisc.) criminal negligence                                                              
involved or homicide under criminal negligence in combination that                                                              
there could be a charge of second-degree murder vice-a-vie                                                                      
homicide, I mean, manslaughter."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI replied if a person has been convicted of custodial                                                               
interference and after a conviction has caused the death of a child                                                             
through criminal negligence then that person could be charged with                                                              
second-degree murder.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG wondered whether a driving while                                                                        
intoxicated (DWI) homicide normally charged under manslaughter                                                                  
could be shifted to second-degree murder.  He is not sure whether                                                               
the legislature or the sponsor wants to do that.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1051                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked Representative Rokeberg whether he                                                                
wants to leave it out.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied no.  He stated in this case several                                                             
things are being combined to make a more severe penalty.  He asked,                                                             
Do we want to make those types of things second-degree murder with                                                              
a 20 year presumptive minimum sentence?  He said, "We ought to be                                                               
darn sure what we're putting together here warrants that high                                                                   
minimum presumption."  In other words, a conviction of vehicular                                                                
homicide then a conviction of taking one's child out of state on a                                                              
separate instance seems a little tough for 20 years.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT called on Ms. Lucky to comment on any of the issues                                                               
discussed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1147                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. LUCKY reiterated the intent of Senator Halford is to use a                                                                  
higher penalty against those who have a past conviction of a crime                                                              
against a child and cause the death of a child.  She believes                                                                   
prosecutors will still have discretion in what they will charge                                                                 
someone with.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1180                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated, if he was a noncustodial parent and                                                             
took his child to Hawaii for a week and got busted, he would hate                                                               
to think that he would turn into a second-degree murderer later on                                                              
because of a different fact pattern.  He is not certain that is the                                                             
case, but he is very concerned about it.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT noted that Representative Rokeberg is right on track.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1210                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. LUCKY offered to the committee members an index of the statutes                                                             
under AS 11.41 in terms of specifying particular crimes...                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT interjected and asked Ms. Lucky whether there has                                                                 
been any discussion to separate those crimes.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. LUCKY replied it hasn't been a discussion until now, and she                                                                
has not talked with Senator Halford about it.  She reiterated she                                                               
has a list of crimes under AS 11.41 if the committee wishes to                                                                  
fine-tune certain things.  There are a lot of crimes listed that                                                                
would merit a more detailed discussion than just a list of the                                                                  
statutes.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Ms. Lucky to make that index available to the                                                               
committee members.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1278                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Ms. Carpeneti what the presumptive                                                                
minimum and maximum sentences are for class B and C felonies.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI replied the maximum for a class B felony is (indisc.)                                                             
and the maximum for a class C felony is five years.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Ms. Carpeneti what are the minimums.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. CARPENETI replied class B and C felonies don't have presumptive                                                             
terms for the first conviction.  A presumptive term for a class C                                                               
felony for a second conviction is two years.  A presumptive term                                                                
for a class B felony for a second conviction is four years.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1332                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT closed the meeting to public testimony.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT referred the bill to a subcommittee.  He appointed                                                                
Representative Rokeberg as chairman, and Representatives Green and                                                              
Kerttula to the subcommittee and charged it with looking at these                                                               
issues further in cooperation with the sponsor.  The subcommittee                                                               
is to report back to the full committee at the earliest time                                                                    
possible.                                                                                                                       

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